Streetlights

(no title)

Fri, 01 Mar 2013 18:18:41 +0000

It may not be realized that the City of Seattle was one of the initial cities to consider LED lighting. This started when there only a few companies to design and manufacture LED fixtures. The LED lighting industry has been increasing, improving, and setting standards for this fairly new technology in the USA. The City of Seattle and other cities around the nation have been working together to create the guidelines that are mentioned in the above report. As with any new technology there are growing pains and input from the public is crucial to improve the product and assist in determining what the future standard needs to be. The City of Seattle should welcome your observations and opinions to improve the quality of life and lighting in Seattle.

(no title)

Fri, 01 Mar 2013 03:36:47 +0000

As a regular nighttime pedestrian, I appreciate their brightness. As someone who's got a new LED shining into her living room, I like how much closer to the color of moonlight it is than the previous orange bulb. As someone with a really effective solar panel, I appreciate their low energy use. And as a history nerd, I gotta say that the complaints sound an awful lot like the complaints I've read about with the switch from soft, dim, oh-so-cozy gaslight to the glaring and hideous innovation known as electric light.

I'd be a little surprised if the petition got much support at all, but I'm regularly surprised by all sorts of things.

(no title)

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:21:31 +0000

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pooh-pooh anyone's personal option of the new streetlights, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. We're all entitled to our opinions, and I merely wanted to express my own. I will say that what's not cool is cherry-picking "data" that seems to support your opinion. I haven't had the time to read the entire Carnegie-Mellon study, but it does look like you've skimmed the summary at the beginning and used that little bit of info to support your assertion that the City of Seattle or SCL didn't do their due diligence in this matter. Example: "The report goes on (pages 9 and 11) with some very specific guidelines that I don't think the City of Seattle has observed." Why would Seattle have been compelled to observe the "guidelines" presented in a study that was conducted for the City of Pittsburgh? Furthermore, do you have any information about how and why Seattle came to choose the fixtures that they did, or are you just summarily concluding that their engineering was flawed because you don't like the results?

By all means, petition SCL, the Mayor, and the City Council to get the streetlights changed again. But let's not pretend the there's a mountain of evidence that says the new lights were a poor choice to begin with.

(no title)

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:40:27 +0000

As far as replacing "the light sources and the luminaires" - that's what's been done. The fixtures and the lamps have been replaced. I watched the contractor do it on 39th several months ago. It was pretty fast work. While I'm generally content with the results (and I'm very aware of light pollution) the thing I like most is not having the lamps turn off randomly. I think the old style lamps would shut themselves off at a certain temperature and then slowly restart themselves which was highly annoying if the street was too dark to feel safe. Yes, the lights are bright when you look at them but the light on the ground is fairly minimal.

info from seattle dot gov

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:26:21 +0000

To read about Seattle's LED streetlights, including pilot areas and surveys, here is the link.
http://www.seattle.gov/light/streetlight/led/

Re: Streetlights

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:06:18 +0000

One more favorable vote for the new light here. Better for general safety (worse for individuals, I guess), cleaner for Earth (bad for sodium lamp factories, I guess).

(no title)

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:02:02 +0000

But are they actually "brighter", or is that just your perception? Are you reacting to the street surface/walking area feeling over-lit, or is it the apparent brightness of the fixture head itself that leads you to think they are too bright?

There are many factors that influence our perception of brightness, including color temperature, contrast ratio, and "glare". I'll give you that there's a little more of what we could call "glare" from the new LED fixtures, but what we can't say is if there's actually greater light output.

I just don't think we should start with an assertion that the new streetlights are "brighter", and therefore the fixtures were specified incorrectly. If we're going to make that claim, then we need a little data to back that up.

(no title)

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 04:49:15 +0000

I see that some people like them. This is for people who really, really don't. Perhaps for the nighthawks, who walk their dogs at midnight, perhaps those who would like to look up at the stars without being blinded, or sit on their decks and see the dark of the lake, not the lights on the streets. The point is that the city could have chosen better. If they spent millions, they did it unwisely. There's a great thing put together by the Carnegie-Mellon people called the LED Street Light Research Project (http://www.cmu.edu/rci/images/projects/led-updated-web-report.pdf).

Yes, there is savings. But there were much better lights and the proper research would have put those in place. Interestingly, the report specifically addresses the glare factor on Page 9:
"The light sources and the luminaires both must be replaced because the standard
City luminaires do not have reflectors or lenses to control glare. Cobra head,
shoe box, and pendant luminaires can be replaced with new models that have the
proper characteristics."

The report goes on (pages 9 and 11) with some very specific guidelines that I
don't think the City of Seattle has observed.

(no title)

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 04:45:43 +0000

PLease consider signing the petition asking the city to address this.

There's a great thing put together by the Carnegie-Mellon people called the LED Street Light Research Project (http://www.cmu.edu/rci/images/projects/led-updated-web-report.pdf).

Yes, there is savings. But there were much better lights and the proper research would have put those in place. Interestingly, they specifically address the glare factor on Page 9:
"The light sources and the luminaires both must be replaced because the standard
City luminaires do not have reflectors or lenses to control glare. Cobra head,
shoe box, and pendant luminaires can be replaced with new models that have the
proper characteristics."

The report goes on (pages 9 and 11) with some very specific guidelines that I
don't think the City of Seattle has observed.

(no title)

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 02:12:49 +0000

If there's public information about cost savings from these brighter lamps, that information hasn't come to my attention. I would simply say that they are too bright. If, too bright, they save money, then surely less-bright lamps would save even more money.

Re: Streetlights

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:50:56 +0000

I fully agree with venture; the new lights are a huge improvement over the old hp sodium lamps, not too mention the previous mercury lamps, (do remember the awful "blue" color?). The new LED provide a very natural light so color look more real, not to mention how much energy they save and how much longer they last. Here is a link to a nice short comparison to the street light fixtures. *http://initial-led.blogspot.com/2012/03/hpshigh-pressure-sodium-vs-led-lights.html**

BTW I also have 2 new lamps in the street outside of our home and have not noticed any offensive glare.

Re: Streetlights

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 07:31:15 +0000

I love the new streetlights! I was born in Seattle and have lived my entire life under the queasy orange-pink pallor of the high-pressure sodium streetlight. The new LED streetlights have a more pleasant color and better color rendering, a much more effective beam spread, and they cut way, way down on streetlight-related light pollution. Looking across Rainier Valley from my home, I used to see hundreds of the old streetlights dotting the east side of Beacon Hill. Since the installation of the new lights, I can barley make out a couple dozen. My point is this: there's no reason that light from streetlights that are miles away should be streaming into my windows at night. Now it doesn't, thanks to the new streetlights.

Yes, there's a glare issue, but there had been with the old lights just as much as with the new ones, we were just used to it. It's straight-up physics folks, if you want light, you gotta have a source. I think that given time City Light will find solutions to your individual glare problems (by installing glare shields, etc), just as they did with the old lights.

The new lights are here to stay, the city has spent years and millions of dollars making this improvement a reality. We'll all reap the benefits of better, safer illumination, greater efficiency, and lower maintenance costs.

Streetlights

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 01:46:40 +0000

If you love the streetlights, please love them. For those who don't, please go to ipetition:

Some of us hate the new streetlights. If you're one, you may want to check out the petition at ipetition and see if you'd like to sign.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/seattle-led-streetlights-must-change/

City Light sends pap cajoling, and we must move on to the City Council and the Mayor. Some of us feel that these lights are obnoxious and that there must be a remedy to energy-efficiency at the cost of beauty.